Nha Trang

December 7, 2009

Originally uploaded by Christian Lagat.

Christian’s been doing some very exciting work in Vietnam!  He uses a Ricoh GR digital camera that is compact and easy to travel with.  Christian captures the gentle pace of the country and beautiful compositions of the shores of Nha Trang,  a place that I was too young to visit when I lived in Vietnam.
Check out his collection of Vietnam.  This set is from Can Tho where I used to live.  I’ll have to ask him his reasons and perhaps conduct an interview.

Duc:  So how do you find the opportunity to travel to Vietnam for Pictures

Christian:  Hi !  Thanks a lot again for your interest in my pictures !  I’ve been only one time in Vietnam. This year, in spring, for 3 weeks. It was a tourism travel with my wife and my 2 boys (15 & 13).
We really enjoined the trip…people, landscapes, food, everything was perfect !  We’ve been only in south and central Vietnam, and we would like go to north in the future.

I wanted to go there for years, because for my generation, specialy for people like me interesting in politic and history, Vietnam was the terrible background of our youth. When I was a kid in the 60’s, I was very impregnated by all the vietnamese city names I heard on the radio.
Another reason, is the fact that these recent years we travelled four times in india, and I knew that it will be very much “restful” to go in Vietnam for my kids and wife…;-)  Cam on.

Duc:  Hi Christian,  You are right about the names which have also impregnated my mind as well.  Especially, Nha Trang because my oldest sister went there to visit.  It was a very popular destination even back then.  I was too young to visit but saw photographs she brought back which was taken by a professional photographer.   At first, I thought you were a photojournalist working on a project on Vietnam. Your work is very impressive. Have you been photographing long?  What is your advice on travel photography? I like the India series. There have been serious documentary work done on India and Vietnam. Michael Ackerman and Mitch Epstein come to mind. Which photographers do you look at?

Christian:  In fact, now, I’m not vey interested by Photography with a big P.
I was a little bit when I was young, 30 years ago, when I read a lot of magazine and books (I remember to be very impressed by the work of Raymond Depardon and Don Mc Cullin) , but now, I’m just traveling, or walking in my own town, shooting and shooting !…;-)

Have a nice week-end.

Related Link:  Diligam’s set on Flickr of Pulau Bidong.

Bryn Oh

August 4, 2009

Couple nights ago, Austin Ellison invited Maddie and I into Bryn Oh’s installation in Second Life (SL).  IBM approached her (Bryn Oh) to install the narative piece.  I have formed some sensations about it and want to share them here.  The narrative is similar to a hyper text of the internet.  In Second Life, the link is call a teleport.  Usually these orbs are circular spheres of a garish color.  Oh’s teleport orb are sparkly filaments, the the ass of a firefly.  I find all of the tones muted and easay on the eyes.  I had a chat with her last night about some of her work.  She has a theory about immersive art and environment which is intriquing.  Her believe is that SL allows one to enter into a painting and controls the perspective as to have an other body experience.  She likes to execute the concept according to the medium.  For those who are not in SL, you can google her work and read about the process of constructing the work and how her work has evolved.  It’s impressive because it seems to combine all of the discipline of art: installation, video, performance, painting, music, book, poems, writen words into an imaginative narrative.

Here’s our unedited conversation:

[2009/08/03 18:15]  Bryn Oh: (Saved Mon Aug  3 17:10:49 2009) why not?
[2009/08/03 18:16]  Ducce Lykin: thought u were busy.
[2009/08/03 23:03]  Ducce Lykin: are you intsalling?
[2009/08/03 23:04]  Bryn Oh: just chatting
[2009/08/03 23:04]  Ducce Lykin: cool
[2009/08/03 23:04]  Ducce Lykin: so it took u long time to build?
[2009/08/03 23:04]  Ducce Lykin: to learn i mean
[2009/08/03 23:08]  Bryn Oh: well i began in my first week
[2009/08/03 23:08]  Bryn Oh: and i guess 6 months
[2009/08/03 23:08]  Bryn Oh: but it is the way to go
[2009/08/03 23:08]  Bryn Oh: from an art perspective
[2009/08/03 23:08]  Bryn Oh: if thats your interest
[2009/08/03 23:08]  Ducce Lykin: has any one done an interview with you for a blog?…
[2009/08/03 23:09]  Ducce Lykin: yeah that’s my interest
[2009/08/03 23:09]  Bryn Oh: sure tons
[2009/08/03 23:09]  Ducce Lykin: how did u find out about sl
[2009/08/03 23:09]  Ducce Lykin: oh okay then i won’t do one lol
[2009/08/03 23:09]  Bryn Oh: lol
[2009/08/03 23:09]  Bryn Oh: well think of it this way ducce
[2009/08/03 23:09]  Bryn Oh: in 5 years what will this medium be remember for?
[2009/08/03 23:10]  Bryn Oh: it wont be remembered for jpegs on a prim
[2009/08/03 23:10]  Bryn Oh: but for other things
[2009/08/03 23:10]  Bryn Oh: think of it as a medium
[2009/08/03 23:10]  Bryn Oh: what are its strengths
[2009/08/03 23:10]  Ducce Lykin: yeah true
[2009/08/03 23:11]  Ducce Lykin: what do u think is the strengths
[2009/08/03 23:11]  Bryn Oh: well for me i am in a movement i call Immersiva
[2009/08/03 23:11]  Bryn Oh: its where you draw ones attention away from rl
[2009/08/03 23:11]  Bryn Oh: completely
[2009/08/03 23:12]  Bryn Oh: but it will be far more than this
[2009/08/03 23:12]  Bryn Oh: as time goes on
[2009/08/03 23:12]  Bryn Oh: so for example
[2009/08/03 23:12]  Bryn Oh: i am a painter in rl
[2009/08/03 23:12]  Bryn Oh: my work is a 2d image on a wall
[2009/08/03 23:12]  Bryn Oh: and people look at it and in some cases can be drawn into it
[2009/08/03 23:13]  Bryn Oh: but sl is a painting you can go inside
[2009/08/03 23:13]  Bryn Oh: and explore
[2009/08/03 23:13]  Ducce Lykin: aha yes
[2009/08/03 23:13]  Ducce Lykin: nice idea
[2009/08/03 23:13]  Bryn Oh: the problem is
[2009/08/03 23:13]  Bryn Oh: our peripheral vision
[2009/08/03 23:13]  Bryn Oh: we see past the outside of our screen
[2009/08/03 23:13]  Bryn Oh: and see things which draw us back into rl
[2009/08/03 23:13]  Bryn Oh: such as a bill on the desk
[2009/08/03 23:13]  Bryn Oh: or perhaps the phone rings
[2009/08/03 23:13]  Bryn Oh: etc
[2009/08/03 23:14]  Bryn Oh: they break immersion
[2009/08/03 23:14]  Bryn Oh: what i will do one day
[2009/08/03 23:14]  Bryn Oh: is to custom build someones fantasy
[2009/08/03 23:14]  Bryn Oh: perhaps their favorite place
[2009/08/03 23:14]  Bryn Oh: a beach.. their grandmothers home etc
[2009/08/03 23:15]  Bryn Oh: and when they come home from work all exhausted
[2009/08/03 23:15]  Bryn Oh: they can plug into this custom paradise
[2009/08/03 23:15]  Bryn Oh: with rl friends or with generated ones
[2009/08/03 23:15]  Bryn Oh: a custom lover perhaps
[2009/08/03 23:15]  Bryn Oh: who is exactly what they find attractive
[2009/08/03 23:15]  Bryn Oh: etc
[2009/08/03 23:16]  Ducce Lykin: interesting
[2009/08/03 23:16]  Bryn Oh: this is what the medium can do
[2009/08/03 23:16]  Bryn Oh: eventually
[2009/08/03 23:18]  Ducce Lykin: how did u find out about sl?
[2009/08/03 23:19]  Bryn Oh: i read an article about a man who spent all his money on a condo in a place called second life… i had to see this for myself.
[2009/08/03 23:19]  Ducce Lykin: hehe
[2009/08/03 23:20]  Ducce Lykin: and u got immersed
[2009/08/03 23:20]  Ducce Lykin: so painting is dead
[2009/08/03 23:20]  Ducce Lykin: how do u get ur muted tones?
[2009/08/03 23:24]  Bryn Oh: painting is not dead
[2009/08/03 23:25]  Bryn Oh: its just not the best use of sl
[2009/08/03 23:25]  Bryn Oh: what does it do here?
[2009/08/03 23:25]  Bryn Oh: a jpeg is a very very poor substitute for a painting
[2009/08/03 23:25]  Bryn Oh: and it uses none of the tools sl gives us
[2009/08/03 23:26]  Ducce Lykin: aha right
[2009/08/03 23:26]  Ducce Lykin: what’s ur opinion on sculpties?
[2009/08/03 23:27]  Bryn Oh: i dont use them but I appreciate them.  I was trained in softimage.
[2009/08/03 23:27]  Ducce Lykin: what is softimage?
[2009/08/03 23:27]  Bryn Oh: i thought you were not doing a blog post
[2009/08/03 23:28]  Ducce Lykin: lol
[2009/08/03 23:28]  Ducce Lykin: just chatting
[2009/08/03 23:28]  Ducce Lykin: how do i access saved chats?
[2009/08/03 23:28]  Bryn Oh: i am not sure
[2009/08/03 23:28]  Bryn Oh: i have not tried to do that before
[2009/08/03 23:30]  Ducce Lykin: i found it
[2009/08/03 23:31]  Bryn Oh: you are part of the long now foundation?
[2009/08/03 23:31]  Ducce Lykin: yes
[2009/08/03 23:31]  Bryn Oh: is that how you found me?
[2009/08/03 23:31]  Ducce Lykin: i blog post the entire interview with andrew
[2009/08/03 23:31]  Ducce Lykin: i found you through austin ellison
[2009/08/03 23:32]  Ducce Lykin: i used to film me dancing on blip.tv hehe
[2009/08/03 23:33]  Ducce Lykin: that was my machina practice
[2009/08/03 23:33]  Bryn Oh: ah yes i remember austin
[2009/08/03 23:34]  Ducce Lykin: good
[2009/08/03 23:35]  Ducce Lykin: do u see sl as an artist residency>?
[2009/08/03 23:35]  Bryn Oh: i think artists stay
[2009/08/03 23:35]  Bryn Oh: many come here but artists stay
[2009/08/03 23:38]  Ducce Lykin: hehe
[2009/08/03 23:38]  Ducce Lykin: there have been some article on artnews
[2009/08/03 23:38]  Ducce Lykin: but i was disppointed in them
[2009/08/03 23:39]  Ducce Lykin: i think ur work is more powerful then their conceptual sexual things
[2009/08/03 23:39]  Bryn Oh: which article?
[2009/08/03 23:40]  Bryn Oh: i dont know them
[2009/08/03 23:41]  Ducce Lykin: i can’t  remember
[2009/08/03 23:42]  Ducce Lykin: but their art was reallly terrible that i saw
[2009/08/03 23:42]  Ducce Lykin: just suxed…i can’t believe it was in artnews
[2009/08/03 23:42]  Ducce Lykin: but at least art news give sl a nod
[2009/08/03 23:43]  Bryn Oh: oh filthy fluno?
[2009/08/03 23:43]  Bryn Oh: oh that was ny times
[2009/08/03 23:43]  Ducce Lykin: there was on in artnews too
[2009/08/03 23:43]  Bryn Oh: well i am not sure the article you mean or the artist
[2009/08/03 23:43]  Bryn Oh: but rl publications
[2009/08/03 23:44]  Bryn Oh: they dont understand sl yet
[2009/08/03 23:44]  Ducce Lykin: yeah?
[2009/08/03 23:44]  Bryn Oh: so when a rl reporter comes into sl
[2009/08/03 23:44]  Bryn Oh: who doenst normally come here
[2009/08/03 23:44]  Ducce Lykin: i know i think we understand them better and bloggers do a better job lol
[2009/08/03 23:44]  Bryn Oh: they try to link rl art to what is happening
[2009/08/03 23:44]  Bryn Oh: they do
[2009/08/03 23:45]  Ducce Lykin: right and they don’t think ahead.
[2009/08/03 23:45]  Bryn Oh: they dont yet see it as its own medium
[2009/08/03 23:45]  Bryn Oh: they see it as a means to market rl art
[2009/08/03 23:46]  Bryn Oh: but its value is far greater than that
[2009/08/03 23:46]  Bryn Oh: here look at this…
[2009/08/03 23:46]  Bryn Oh: and think of the technology
[2009/08/03 23:46]  Bryn Oh: and then place milo in sl
[2009/08/03 23:47]  Bryn Oh: http://brynoh.blogspot.com/2009/06/milo.html
[2009/08/03 23:47]  Ducce Lykin: but not all of us are as good as u to build lol
[2009/08/03 23:47]  Bryn Oh: it takes work just as any other medium does
[2009/08/03 23:47]  Bryn Oh: and commitment
[2009/08/03 23:48]  Bryn Oh: and there are many works in sl that dont rely on technical skill
[2009/08/03 23:48]  Bryn Oh: but on concept
[2009/08/03 23:48]  Ducce Lykin: really wow
[2009/08/03 23:48]  Ducce Lykin: i’ll have to find that
[2009/08/03 23:50]  Ducce Lykin: so do u get sponsor ship to build
[2009/08/03 23:50]  Ducce Lykin: because the land is expensive
[2009/08/03 23:51]  Bryn Oh: yes immersiva was given to me by dusan writer
[2009/08/03 23:51]  Bryn Oh: pathfinder linden gave me a place for my helen keller build
[2009/08/03 23:51]  Bryn Oh: which is permanent
[2009/08/03 23:51]  Bryn Oh: IBM gave me a sim temporarily for the Rabbicorn story
[2009/08/03 23:52]  Bryn Oh: IBM actually are becoming interested in sl art
[2009/08/03 23:52]  Ducce Lykin: so if it’s taken down it is destoyed?
[2009/08/03 23:52]  Bryn Oh: no its in my inventory
[2009/08/03 23:52]  Ducce Lykin: i hope so
[2009/08/03 23:52]  Ducce Lykin: ur inventory must be massive
[2009/08/03 23:52]  Bryn Oh: you can now bring them out of sl too
[2009/08/03 23:52]  Bryn Oh: and into open sim
[2009/08/03 23:53]  Bryn Oh: its pretty big yes lol
[2009/08/03 23:54]  Ducce Lykin: omg but still it’s the work installing it
[2009/08/03 23:54]  Bryn Oh: yes the rabbicorn story took a month
[2009/08/03 23:54]  Ducce Lykin: have u thought of making a book out of it?
[2009/08/03 23:54]  Ducce Lykin: did ibm come to u?
[2009/08/03 23:54]  Bryn Oh: yes that is the plan
[2009/08/03 23:54]  Bryn Oh: yes IBM offered the space
[2009/08/03 23:55]  Ducce Lykin: wow they hear alot about u nice
[2009/08/03 23:56]  Ducce Lykin: wow a book
[2009/08/03 23:56]  Ducce Lykin: here i am making book on blurb
[2009/08/03 23:56]  Bryn Oh: on what?
[2009/08/03 23:57]  Ducce Lykin: my photographs
[2009/08/03 23:57]  Ducce Lykin: and nine paintings
[2009/08/03 23:57]  Bryn Oh: nice
[2009/08/03 23:57]  Bryn Oh: but have not used it yet
[2009/08/03 23:57]  Bryn Oh: i have that downloaded
[2009/08/03 23:57]  Ducce Lykin: i see
[2009/08/03 23:57]  Ducce Lykin: u’ll like it
[2009/08/03 23:58]  Ducce Lykin: i been thinking about building architecture..
[2009/08/03 23:58]  Ducce Lykin: that’s my degree
[2009/08/03 23:58]  Ducce Lykin: to do something in sl with archit
[2009/08/03 23:59]  Bryn Oh: oh well then you need to meet the sl architects
[2009/08/03 23:59]  Bryn Oh: scope cleaver
[2009/08/03 23:59]  Bryn Oh: db bailey
[2009/08/03 23:59]  Bryn Oh: keystone bouchard
[2009/08/03 23:59]  Bryn Oh: those are the top ones
[2009/08/04 0:00]  Ducce Lykin: okay thanks
[2009/08/04 0:00]  Ducce Lykin: i do autocad
[2009/08/04 0:01]  Ducce Lykin: they are too good
[2009/08/04 0:01]  Ducce Lykin: i’m just begining
[2009/08/04 0:03]  Ducce Lykin: geee
[2009/08/04 0:05]  Bryn Oh: you just need to practice
[2009/08/04 0:05]  Bryn Oh: thats all it is
[2009/08/04 0:05]  Ducce Lykin: true true
[2009/08/04 0:06]  Ducce Lykin: but u must have a concept before the execution no?
[2009/08/04 0:06]  Ducce Lykin: how did u do it?
[2009/08/04 0:06]  Bryn Oh: well i am always full of stories and ideas
[2009/08/04 0:07]  Bryn Oh: so i try to make the stories into poems
[2009/08/04 0:07]  Bryn Oh: then i build them
[2009/08/04 0:07]  Bryn Oh: and film
[2009/08/04 0:08]  Ducce Lykin: wow
[2009/08/04 0:08]  Ducce Lykin: patients
[2009/08/04 0:08]  Ducce Lykin: i need to find a natural way in
[2009/08/04 0:09]  Bryn Oh: i need to go to bed
[2009/08/04 0:09]  Bryn Oh: its late here
[2009/08/04 0:09]  Ducce Lykin: okay thanks for chat
[2009/08/04 0:10]  Bryn Oh: bye ducce
[2009/08/04 0:10]  Ducce Lykin: bye for now



I mentioned that I’ve been reading Steves’s humour column in DIYplanners. Recently, I befriended Stephen (Steves) Sharam, the writer behind those entertaining columns. It all started when I had asked Douglas Johnston about Nova Scotia. He moved from there long ago so I told me to ask Stephen. (As a boy, I had read Howard Norman’s fiction set in and around Halifax, Nova Scotia. Every time my Wife and I fly over Halifax, on our way to Poland, my heart skips a beat. As the on board monitor shows a map of our flight plan, I try to peer out into the cold and try to imagine what it’s like to live there.) Update: Steves has prophetically written about his new concept of Cattle Based Planning. Recently I encounter a planning system based on dairy products…well close enough. Check it out here: Remember the Milk

The following is an exchanges of messages in our Facebook accounts:

Hi Steve,
Douglas Johnson told me to ask you about riding unicycles and listening to wireless radio in Nova Scotia…I’ve only heard about these things from Howard Norman’s books
Stephen Sharam
Hey, well Doug says a lot of things that are not true:P Halifax has a lot of bagpipes, which is sort of like wireless radio. Are you on DIY? What’s your nick?

Yes I’m on DIY….my nick is my real name duc ly
what’s your nik
*lol at the bagpipes comment 🙂
Stephen Sharam
Ha, thanks. My nick is ‘steves’, I write the humour column on Fridays (usually:P)
ahah….yes i read your columns…in fact I mention it on one of my interview with Rasmussen…
I’m one of your big fans….
I would like to interview you some time…maybe?
Stephen Sharam
Wow, thanks, it’s nice to have a fan:) Sounds possible. What would we talk about?

Hm…I don’t know maybe how you got started in diy and what makes you write humorous pieces for diy?
What’s the deal with your Facebook picture in profile…are you like a confused don quixote slaying at the invisible wind mill on your bicycle?…and shouldn’t you be riding a unicycle?
Stephen Sharam
Hmm, I’m not sure if there’s much of interest there. I started because Doug asked me and I write them for kicks:P Short interview:) Let’s try and think of something else.
What’s up with the unicycle thing? No, no, I came home one day several years ago and my parents had a bunch of things out for a yard sale, including the bike, so I ran into the house and grabbed the sword and had Dad take the picture. I just think it’s important to show the neighbours that you mean business:)

Duc N. Ly
haha…okay I’ll think of something else…so far I think your answers are entertaining.
what’s it like to live in Nova Scotia. Well, I am fascinated with unicycles and wish I could ride one while juggling knives. How long have you been on diy and are you obsessed with notebooks too?
Stephen Sharam
Ha ha, well I’d love to see that. Let me know before you try your unicycle-riding knife juggling and I’ll bring my camera:)
Well, I don’t actually live in Nova Scotia anymore. Not lots of unicycles, but I just couldn’t stand the bagpipes anymore:P
I’ve been on DIY since it started in Sept. 05 and I actually only use the creative parts of the planner packs. I’ve tried printing off full planners, but I keep loosing them. I think Doug asked me to write for the site because I’m very much opposite to most of the people on it in terms of personality. I’m disorganized, silly and kinda lazy. I think DIYPlanner.com needs me:)

What’s with your aversion towards bag pipes? I think I should ride the unicycle and play the bag pipes instead! Although, it would be difficult to ride in a kilt. That’s the second person that moved away from Nova Scotia. I’m not familiar with the creative planner packs. Diy sure needs you. Do you write the humour column some as a profession? How can I get in touch with a Nova Scotian? Particularly one from Halifax.
Hm…I think it would be cool to post this on my blog with your picture as a modern day Don Quixote. With your permission of course.
What gives you the inspirations for your humour columns? Who do you read or think is amusing?
Ah, you’re a very sneaky man. I thought maybe I was being interviewed and didn’t know it:P Ah well, that’s fine with me:)

My picture as a modern day Don Quixote…well, that works. I’ve been telling my girlfriend for years that she’s Sancho Panza, keeping me on the straight and narrow…sometimes.

Why do you want to find a Nova Scotian so much? Is it the bagpipes or the kitchen parties? they have plenty of both.

Where do I come up with my ideas? Actually, that’s gotten much harder as time has gone by. Several times I’ve thought of an idea that seems great, only to realize that I already did that topic a year and a half ago:) Often I’ll talk to Innowen or Doug and bounce some ideas around and something will start to gel. I think it’s kind of difficult actually to write humour columns every week on a site about productivity. Shockingly, paper-based planning is not the funniest subject out there. People writing things on paper? Stop, you’re killing me!

Most people who write humour leave themselves wide open, so they have the most options and I think my columns have certainly become a lot less focused on productivity humour over time. It’s probably a good training ground for if I ever decide to do it professionally: If I can write something funny about paper-based planning every week, I can write about almost anything:P

Great!…I think we’ll go to print! :)0 Saves me from having to think about making a new post all on my own….
Sounds good:P If you wouldn’t mind, please mention my blog as well as DIYPlanner (can’t pass up free advertising:)


Originally uploaded by Duc N. Ly.
I’m glad to have with me today in Hell’s Kitchen on Second Life, a second interview with Ryan Rasmussen (aka Austin Ellison), one of the author of ‘Age of Conversation’. I’m please to have Ryan back again to talk about AoC and many other subjects. I will start the conversation by congratulating them on the success of the book.


The Age of Conversation
Click To Play



You: Congratulations to you, an author of Age of Conversation.

[10:12] Ryan Rasmussen: 😉 Thank you.

[10:12] You: You were saying before the crash that there is quit a buzz about this book AOC…it’s interesting that I came to it through your Facebook profile 🙂

[10:13] Austin Ellison: 😉 That is what happens when you collect 100 ‘social media savvy’ minds and ask them for creative methods for marketing this project.

[10:14] Austin Ellison: Several of the contributors joined Facebook solely for this reason: to market the book.

[10:15] You: I think that it’s a great idea. The Facebook (FB) community is growing also I join because of the notebook community. FB is being used in a very creative way.

[10:15] Austin Ellison: It’s incredible addictive!

[10:16] You: Yes it is more so then any other media…maybe it’s because of the ‘mash’ables

[10:16] Austin Ellison: Last night, I was taking photographs and videos of a thunderstorm while walking down Michigan Ave solely to upload them to the FB profile.

[10:17] Austin Ellison: I used Shozu, and a few FB modules/mashables to automatically upload the media.

[10:17] Austin Ellison: I’m not entirely certain ‘why’ it is so intriguing. However, I suppose it is just a new form of journaling 2.0

[10:17] You: You always seem to find ways around it, to use it fully.

[10:18] You: Let’s get back to AOC. I always think about the story of how we met.

[10:18] Austin Ellison: Sure. I believe it you were shopping for groceries, right?

[10:19] You: Meaning that I was experimenting…around that time I was doing some PayPerPost… and the idea of asking for sample products to review on my bog.

[10:19] You: I have always like paper products and on a whim I sent out an email

[10:20] Austin Ellison: Yes. You actually had created quite an impressive footprint online with your Squidoo and word press pages.

[10:20] You: Aha Yes I was in the Polish European meat market shopping with my wife when I got that phone call from you.

[10:20] Austin Ellison: 😉

[10:21] Austin Ellison: Anyway, I really noticed your site when I realized you were in the top 20 Google results for Levenger.

[10:21] You: So you were the impetus for my subsequent reviews of the products from other company as well… but it’s a perfect example of what AOC is all about.

[10:21] Austin Ellison: Google searches are quickly becoming a compelling new method for deterring exactly what is occurring with one’s brand.

[10:22] Austin Ellison: Thank you. I think it works best when both parties see the “conversation” as an opportunity to collaborate, or co-create.

[10:23] You: yes our real life company, a mortgage company is paying thousands of dollars to be able to be search-able on Google. In fact, I sent the article you wrote on AOC to my marketing person. She’s young and energetic…I hope she’s open minded about marketing and social media. I also showed her my Circa Rolla notebooks because she saw it and was very curious.

[10:24] Austin Ellison: 😉 Excellent.

[10:25] Austin Ellison: An active conversation about something is pretty attractive to a Technorati spider or Google-bot.

[10:25] You: So I’m curious as how you got involved with AOC…what was the first conversation? The seed…where did it start?

[10:26] You: Can you please define for us laymen Technocratic spider or Google-bot?

[10:26] Austin Ellison: *terms for methods used by search engines to determine a site’s relevance.

[10:28] Austin Ellison: As for connecting with AoC, I started only with DiyPlanner.com working with the idea of collaborative innovation * opening new product development up to the group of natural creative-types. The DIY community was natural to the processes of brainstorms.

[10:28] Austin Ellison: I then attended a presentation by Ben McConnel of Church of the Customer.com

[10:29] Austin Ellison: It was then that I started to understand the divide between traditional PR and marketing approaches to engaging customers.

[10:30] Austin Ellison: Traditional messages were one-way. Microsoft’s Digital Advertising Solutions, “The Break-Up” did a terrific spoof of this in video titles.

[10:31] You: I see

[10:32] Austin Ellison: Although the ROI is near impossible to calculate, a word-of-mouth campaign is incredible powerful. However, it requires passionate customers + responsive merchants.

[10:33] Austin Ellison: Social media provide the opportunity for companies to really learn how customers feel about their brand through open conversation.

[10:34] Austin Ellison: Ben’s presentation leads me to seek out other marketing bloggers that might be actuating this sort of campaign.

[10:34] You: Well said….

[10:34] Austin Ellison: Large companies, like Microsoft and Google, realized the importance of corporate blogging some time ago. I was on a quest to see who else was actively questioning and listening to their customers.

[10:35] Austin Ellison: This led me to Gavin Heaton’s blog, and the open call for participants.

[10:35] Austin Ellison: My email simply stated, “I have been working with customers online for quite some time.”

[10:36] You: true true

[10:36] Austin Ellison: In my own article, I chose to speak of some of the obstacles to approaching this sort of open engagement.

[10:37] Able Whitman is Online

[10:37] You: Yes, I’ve underline a few sentences.

[10:37] Austin Ellison: Entering a community as a company representative exposes oneself to any number of incalculable slings and arrows. 😉

[10:37] You: They are reluctant….

[10:37] Austin Ellison: Often, this is the reason companies are reluctant to jump in.

[10:38] You: I’ve asked a number of companies for product review and often I get rejections.

[10:38] Austin Ellison: However, any feedback, including negative, is vital to brand health.

[10:39] You: Extremely. Ryan, in a year you went from Manager to Director of new Media at Levenger…incredible.

[10:39] Austin Ellison: I continue to manage the store. 😉

[10:39] Austin Ellison: I spoke with Stephen Smith at HDBizBlog about this a few weeks back.

[10:39] You: I see you as an example of what they call ‘Blue Ocean’ Strategies…

[10:39] You: Oh I’ll have to see the link

[10:40] You: Stephen wrote a post about Levenger getting it right

[10:40] Austin Ellison: Well, it was actually a more recent conversation with him where I asked if he had any advice for what I should actually “call” my position. 😉

[10:41] You: what is it officially called now?

[10:41] Austin Ellison: A few members of DiyPlanner had suggested, “Company liaison”, etc.

[10:42] Austin Ellison: I direct Levenger’s social media program. What started as an experiment last fall has developed into something pretty compelling.

[10:42] You: I think that you have gone above the red sea of the competition and have created a position where you are in the blue…an innovative new place beyond other competitors. And that’s unique.

[10:42] Thim Vella: hello

[10:43] Austin Ellison: Therefore, “director of social media optimization/engagement” came together.

[10:43] Austin Ellison: 😉 Thank you.

[10:43] Seth Rahja: draw

[10:43] Austin Ellison: However, it really was born from the interaction I was accustomed to on the retail floor.

[10:44] Austin Ellison: Instead of approaching social media from a marketing background, I saw it as another method of forming genuine relationships with customers.

[10:44] You: Great…let’s mention Tom Kelly’s book and his ‘Ten Faces… or personas

[10:44] You: as I would like to call them…one is the Anthropologist

[10:45] You: that is an excellent analogy for what you do…

[10:45] Thim Vella: hi Seth

[10:45] You: and you are very careful not to be too commercial or marketing it.

[10:45] You: trust is important to you as any cultural anthropologist would say….

[10:46] Able Whitman is Offline

[10:46] Austin Ellison: Tom instilled an “urgency” of innovation when I heard him speak.

[10:46] Austin Ellison: This is what really catapulted the project forward.

[10:47] Murda Cortes is Offline

[10:47] You: And that’s why when I approached you to blog about some of what you do you were careful and I was hesitant because I didn’t want to compromise your trust.

[10:47] You: Yes so it is the same for you and I because we , mostly you were doing things…stuff like fast prototyping before we read the books.

[10:48] You: In our last interview I think the readers got a sense of not being too commercialized

[10:49] You: I was evangelizing to some extent before I realized what I was doing….until Art of Innovation states it in a text book.

[10:50] Austin Ellison: It’s important that I not overtly commercialize my blog, or the manner with which I present new products in communities that are built upon “real” emotional connections. I stated in a post on DiyP a few months ago, that during a presentation to managers I felt as though I should have been wearing and official DiyPlanner.com t-shirt. The bonds between community members are real, and trust is incredibly important.

[10:50] Austin Ellison: Yes, about evangelizing, Ben McConnel’s book was titled, “Customer Evangelists”.

[10:50] Austin Ellison: 😉

[10:50] Murda Cortes is Online

[10:51] You: In your write up for AOC there was a quote about Flickr.

[10:52] You: Levenger is incredibly fast.

[10:52] Austin Ellison: The early adopters, the 1%’ers, brand advocates, … they ‘do’ generate spontaneously. However, honest direct relationships that show a company “listens” as often as it “talks” can actually generate some of this excitement.

[10:53] Austin Ellison: That quote was from a DiyP member under the handle, Eris. 😉

[10:54] You: DIY Planner community is incredible….

[10:54] You: It really comes from the testing of products that consumers do.

[10:54] You: I think I found out about the hpda from a Flickr hack

[10:56] You: Even with the appearance of Tom Kelly on Cira notebooks in the web, then I see him in the paper Catalogue.

[10:56] Austin Ellison: -what better method for determining if we should or shouldn’t develop a new product than by simply bouncing the idea off of a notebook community!

[10:56] Austin Ellison: 😉

[10:57] You: Then in the next paper catalogue there is a product tailored towards that idea of Circa Jr. notebook as a tool to write books.

[10:57] You: I wonder how Levenger feels about its products being knocked off?

[10:57] You: or I mean imitated.

[10:58] Austin Ellison: There is an old adage I’ll spare you from. 😉

[10:58] You: hehe

[10:58] You: So you encounter Tom Kelly’s book after the fact?

[10:58] Austin Ellison: ?

[10:59] You: Meaning that instinctually you knew the direction in which you were going?

[10:59] You: That is, you were playing the anthropologist even before realizing it…

[10:59] Austin Ellison: Yes ;), but his words made the project seem vital! …

[11:00] Austin Ellison: Tom used an interesting analogy I had not heard before.

[11:00] You: and what is that?

[11:00] Austin Ellison: He used the term, The Red Queen Effect.

[11:00] You: meaning?

[11:00] Austin Ellison: Referring to Alice and the Looking Glass.

[11:01] Austin Ellison: The idea is that the playing field of competitive advantage and innovation is already in motion.

[11:02] Austin Ellison: In order to succeed, the speed of innovation must be faster than the rate at which the entire playing field is moving.

[11:03] Austin Ellison: It was this concept that instilled a “hit the ground running” approach to the experiment.

(Due to some technical difficulties, some parting words were lost. Basically, I asked Ryan what was next for him. He mention mobile reviews. Ryan said that he could not have predicted a year ago where he would be today and would not attempt to. Very well said.)

update:  age-of-conversation-2-an-excerpt

Related Post:

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Jennifer has several blogs, one of them is Lifemuncher (there’s a link in the blog roll). I’ve always admired her writing and sense of organizational style. If you haven’t look, take a gander. I sent out my not always reliable but Google-ly embedded reporter Lex to have a interview and chat with the lovely and organized mademoiselle George. It seems they talked about toys, gtd, and paper. Lex had a bit of technical difficulty in transcribing the interview. Jennifer had to send the text archived in the chat. ‘me’ is Jennifer. and ‘Lex’ is lex.

10:43 AM Lex: well hellow gennifer george 🙂
10:44 AM me: hey man
10:45 AM Lex: hehe what up
me: just readin blogs
10:46 AM Lex: aha i see…so david allen’s second book is not as good is it?
10:48 AM me: nah. much more new-agey and really scattered
10:49 AM Lex: that’s what i thought.
i’m running out of ideas on what to blog …how about u?
10:50 AM me: i have ideas. i’m just too lazy to write them
Lex: yeah i write a bunch but the same post gets read not new stuff.  What’s ur idea?
me: one is that i want to write a summary post about ready for anything…
but i’d rather take a nap
Lex: haha:)…why do i think of connie chung
when i see claspin’walnuts.
  Hey, i have an idea…i can do an interview on you! Ahem…this is Lex here…google embedded reporter for the daily news..I got my circa hipster and a truely crazy writer….
me: pleasure to be here lex
Lex: what is life munching any way?
and what’s the deal with claspin’walnut? care to explain?
me: claspingwalnut was a randomly generated user name that was suggested to me one time by yahoo. i liked it and kept it. it has
a certain threatening quality that i enjoy.

Lex: oh i think so
me: lifemuncher was a play on lifehacker. it makes me think of silly
childish insults like “buttmunch” and i’m silly and childish, so it fits
Lex: a strength of an ox…haha I think that fits…although I was thinking of something else….but never mind.                                                                     me: yeah, that too
Lex: aha so ur a gtd gal…..
me: i love organizing things, so gtd is right up my alley
Lex: aha so it’s a life hack for everyone…hm so do you remember how
you first heard of gtd?
me: we actually had the seminar at work, from the david allen company people themselves. i loved it and immediately went home and
organized all my files
. Then i read the book, and found all the productivity bloggers, and got immersed in the gtd world.
Lex: about how long ago was that?
me: i think it was about a year and a half ago
Lex: so ur kinda like Monica on Friends
11:02 AM are you like her in other ways?
me: no, i like creating systems and organizing, but i’m not so good
at maintaining them. monica’s much neater than me 11:03 AM i’ve always been pretty organized though. the problem is i don’t stick to any system for long. i just like thinking about different ways to do things
Lex: Hm…is there an easy way to save chat besides copy and paste…I ask since ur a google expert too. Yeah i think i’m the same way
me: you can tell google to archive all your chats in the settings
Lex: I was a Franklin Covey guy before … how about u?
me: i think a lot of the gtd bloggers are the same way
11:05 AM i was really into daytimer for a long itme
Lex: What about this interview now…
me: i think you’ll have to copy and paste
if you’re not already archiving
Lex: oh shoot….I need to change the setting
me: daytimer taught me the value of taking notes during the day and
having everything in one place
Lex: I didn’t use daytimmer…
me: it’s pretty much the same as franklin covey organizer-wise.  I’ve never read 7 habits. should i?
Lex: Hm..I haven’t read the 7 habits either. And I never did
the mission statement and role defining. I think it’s a good book to

me: how’s second life?
Lex: I just got tired of transferring task from day to day  Second Life is fun. I got into it because of friend…Austin… and
Snow Crash. we both read that book….What do you think about Snow crash?
me: i love that book. i think it was very prescient about the future, don’t you? you should read diamond age too
Lex: totally prophetic and perceptive about the future
me: i’ve been trying to read the baroque cycle, but it’s soooo long
Lex: I think you would enjoy second life
me: i can’t decide if i would like it
Lex: have you seen Neal Stephen’s website?
me: not in a while…cryptonomicon is great too
Lex: He has a picture of a stack of paper about 4′ -5′
high….He hand wrote most of it. And he used such expensive fountain pens…
me: do you have just piles and piles of notebooks?
Lex: hm…Yes I do…they are like museum pieces…
some I use for reference.  I would like to hack them and combine them into hybred notebooks but sometimes people will ask me about this and that notebook and I have to answer.  I saved the model number sometimes because it comes in handy. You never know when you’ll need a certain scrap of paper. I push these notebooks to my family and friends in real life too:)  Do you know of Jonathan safron froer?
me: sounds familiar… from where?
Lex: He’s an author of everything is illuminated…well he
saves blank paper…he collects black papers from famous writers 11:18 AM I believe he frames them up on his walls. If i’m more organized and have a place I would have a note book museum:)
me: I’d love to visit. there’s something about notebooks that is so intriguing, so much potential
Lex: yeah…and also the fear and obligations to fill it…believe me there can be actual confusion and hesitation in choosing
which one to use at what time.
  What do you think is intriguing?
me: i always imagine that i will write lots of cool stuff and fill
them up with great memories, but then when i stare at a blank page i
can’t think of anything to say
.  So i just start writing down anything that comes to mind. i always wanted to keep a regular journal, but it’s taken me years to get into the habit. it’s scary
Lex: Why is it scary? are you affraid that others will look into it?me: that’s part of it. i think i’ve always been disappointed in what i write
Lex: I think you got the sense of what Froer was talking about…as a
writer you must conquer the blank page
me: it’s never as good as i think it will be.  I bought “the war of art” have you read it?
Lex: No….tell me about it.
me: it was recommended by Merlin Mann. the subtitle is “break
through the blocks and win your inner creative battles”. it’s about internal obstacles to success “an inspirational, funny, well-aimed kick in the pants guaranteed to galvanize every would-be artist, visionary, or entrepreneur.”
Lex: I do find that bloggin helps writing …what do you think?
me: definitely! especially when people actually seem to like
what you write. gives you confidence
Lex: well….yeah but I think it’s more then that….it’s just different from writing journal alone.  like you say…it’s a blank page and hard to approach.
me: you have to be in the mood
Lex: what’s your fascination with toys?
me: i really don’t know. i think there’s something in the vinyl that
messes with your mind
Lex: haha…
You have a strange fascination with paper and vinyl
11:32 AM me: i do
Lex: maybe it’s the scent
me: could be…
Lex: have you try to combine these two together?
me: sort of i guess. i have an extensive collection of header
cards and stickers related to the toys and the toy artists
Lex: so you are keeping your child alive….that wonderment?
that inner child
me: i guess
Lex: (man…this copy and paste is going to drive me nuts)..
hm I have to go soon…any last words of wisdom?
me: may shai hulud protect your water or something like that
Lex: Any parts that you want to ommit?…lol…i like that
me: no i’m cool
Lex: may you have a good Tau.
btw i got kicked out of Dune
me: oh dear
Lex: see you can be in second life and join the Black sun
metaverse…or go to hogwarts…or mist of avalon…or be a furry. You would enjoy Dune
I bet you can make an avatar like one of your toy…so you
can bring it to life maybe? just a crazy idea
me: i’ve always suspected that i was a bene gesserit
Lex: I think that you are…give me the gom jabbar…11:39 AM I need to brush up on my duneology and maybe we can role play.  It’s been an enjoyable chat/interview to probe the mind of the claspin…mind munching georgie girl.  oh shoot i think i lost the whole thing
where is the chat?
me: i can send it to you if you want
Lex: That would be nice…
me: just a sec
Lex: okay

Jennifer: just a secLex: okayI’ll edit some and then post it :)Jennifer: it’s on its wayLex: thanks…did you have fun?Jennifer: sure! thanks for chattingywttyl


[9:36] Austin Ellison: I’m interested to see how Microsoft’s coverage of Wimbledon will work in SL.

[9:36] You: really

[9:36] You: how

[9:37] You: give me the landmarks please.

[9:37] Austin Ellison: 😉 I think Allison wants to play 😉 – I’ll grab a link – one moment

[9:37] You: k

[9:37] You: *throws Allison a bone

[9:37] You: Well I will have to get my tennis whites on

[9:38] Allison Jonze gnaws on the bone

[9:38] You: *pets dragon

[9:38] You: Allison I can’t remember when I saw you as a human.

[9:39] Austin Ellison: I think big blue is keeping the build location a secret for now.

[9:40] You: ha-ha

[9:40] You: lovely

[9:41] You: I use to have a flaming wall.

[9:42] You: Do you have any other Avies?

[9:46] Austin Ellison: No, just Austin Ellison. (So if you want to publish anything, just ask. 😉 )

[9:48] You: btw I saw what you wrote about ten faces on Stephen’s blog.

[9:48] You: I always wonder why you don’t write like that in your own blog.

[9:49] Austin Ellison: Just remember, not many of your readers understand what an avie [avie is an Avatar] is, let alone that there can be a separate ‘personality’ attributed to that avie. 😉

[9:49] Austin Ellison: Thank you.

[9:49] You: or maybe it’s because when people asks in form of an interview or questions…our writing response becomes better?

[9:50] Austin Ellison: I walk an odd line with how I use Collaborative Ideation. I want to keep it entertaining, but I ‘do’ represent Levenger to an extent with what I write.

[9:50] Austin Ellison: I often try to avoid anything that appears too commercial.

[9:50] You: Yes … I think that is your fear to appear too commercial…

[9:51] You: and I think it holds up some of the writing.

[9:51] Austin Ellison: There are times where I am really excited about a new product or find a large discount on an item others have expressed an interest in, but I do not post such content as it would appear to anyone unfamiliar with my work, as an advertisement.

[9:51] You: in a way it’s a sort of censoring of one self?

[9:51] You: I would agree.

[9:51] You: that’s where people like me come in 🙂

[9:52] You: to bring that sort of good news to the consumers.

[9:52] Austin Ellison: 😉 With your outside perspective, you can offer an opinion about what I write that feels more objective.

[9:52] You: I see.

[9:53] You: but some times I hold my tongue.

[9:53] You: because I know they are free samples.

[9:53] You: and I edit my opinion too much.

[9:53] You: I try to find a ground where products try to work together if I can.

[9:54] Austin Ellison: I’m thankful for the work you do, with the entire notebook community. I realized a few months ago that the social media experiment I’m running is less about the ‘kind’ of notebook used, but about the creativity and “fast-prototyping” of the community that helps us learn together.

[9:54] You: and I think that’s the most fun …to be creative with the good.

[9:54] You: thank you…I sometimes don’t know what I’m doing…I simple play on a hunch and experiment like you.

[9:54] Austin Ellison: Your voice is certainly being broadcast out there to businesses. You’re doing a great job.

[9:55] You: you have an input and support have help.

[9:55] You: and it seems each blog links me to a new connection.

[9:55] You: from Levenger I found out about Tom Kelley

[9:55] You: and then to snow crash to SL

[9:56] You: I wonder if it’s like that for you?


[9:57] Austin Ellison: There are a small group of influencers managing content. Following the web, or clusters, is what can lead to hive research. (Or lots of wasted time.) 😉

[9:58] Austin Ellison: Learning takes on an entirely new operation with collective content intelligence (web 2.0)

[9:58] You: hm…Hive research

[9:58] You: good analogy…we are like worker bees.

[9:59] Austin Ellison: Try creating a feed from a del.icio.us search for some topic or group of words like “SL+library”. You will benefit from the research of everyone else, and as you bookmark your own sites, give back to that effort.

[10:00] You: I see

[10:00] You: I’ve always wonder why you don’t use del.icio.us?

[10:00] Austin Ellison: This is where I step off to some proverbial lectern and begin speaking about emergent communication technology. …..Rather see the space station?

[10:00] You: Or why you choose Tumblr?

[10:01] You: fine with me…do your lectern

[10:01] Austin Ellison: (I find ma.gnolia.com to be much better. It is the blogroll on the right of the tumblr page.)

[10:02] You: Tell us about what you think is the emergent communication tech.

[10:02] Austin Ellison: Further, the guys behind Tumblr have some bright potential. I think there should be some great improvements to the platform in the next few months. It is very “mash” able

[10:03] You: aha I see…delicious had become too commercial maybe.

[10:03] Austin Ellison: A great place to learn about emergent communication is Alex Pang’s EndOfCyberspace blog.

[10:04] You: I see… how did you find his blog?

[10:05] Austin Ellison: He works with a few other researchers from Palo Alto. It was only by chance that I learned of his upcoming book. I had read his entries on Future Now for quite awhile.

[10:06] You: I see….it’s all overwhelming sometimes to keep up with.

[10:06] Austin Ellison: I’m not going anywhere. 😉

[10:06] You: You were talking about Avies earlier.

[10:06] You: what is your explanation.

[10:08] Austin Ellison: Yes. I wanted to mention that sometimes the concepts that you and I have already grasped in regards to dividing selves into SL-Avie, RL, RL on the phone, RL instant messaging, etc, aren’t easily understandably to an audience unless they have experienced them first-hand.

[10:10] Austin Ellison: SL is actually pretty foreign to some. Perhaps you should create an objective, or mission, for Ducce as Duc. Something to help distinguish the personalities while adding a purpose like, “the web 3.d explorer”.

[10:10] Austin Ellison: I bet your fans would find that exciting.

[10:11] You: I think so…(Duc looks around…What fan?)

[10:11] You: I didn’t think anyone reads those things.

[10:11] Austin Ellison: …or “ace reporter from the metaverse” 😉

[10:11] You: but one woman got out of character to chide me on my bad grammar.

[10:11] Austin Ellison: 😉

[10:12] You: Ducce’s personality arrives as he went, a sort of fool misfit.

[10:12] You: I even had to make corrections to make her happy.

[10:13] You: She is a furry in SL. I know some people only exist as furies on here.

[10:13] Austin Ellison: I grasped that on your first post. (Especially when Ducce called Duc an XXX) 😉 But I bet you thoroughly confused a few readers

[10:13] You: and good…

[10:14] You: I think some people are so serious with their blogs

[10:14] Austin Ellison: 😉 Yeah, I agree.

[10:14] You: that’s why I like to read the humorous Steve on DIYplanner.

[10:14] Victoria Trenchard is Online

[10:15] You: What do you think about trying to appear like your real life self on SL?

[10:16] You: I’m thinking I would like to do that but I don’t know how yet.

[10:16] Austin Ellison: I ‘read into’ things a great deal. Further, I felt it would help me to remain focused on my objectives and keep accountable for my actions.

[10:17] Austin Ellison: A fountain pen network member was in Chicago last Friday. He recognized me by my avatar. I was quite impressed.

[10:17] You: 🙂

[10:18] Austin Ellison: -just add a suit and tie.

[10:18] You: I did see your Youtube demonstration of the Aaron Chair

[10:18] You: I must say there is a resemblance.

[10:19] Austin Ellison: Have you seen the station?

[10:19] You: No….I do like the Circa ‘salad’ bar.

[10:19] You: Perfect cross pollination there!

[10:19] You: It’s design experience in action.

[10:19] Austin Ellison: …oh ….. 😉 I’m having a heck of a time trying to figure out how to promote this thing.

[10:20] You: The gadget station?

[10:20] Austin Ellison: It’s funny how a difficult advertising ‘free’ notebook is. (What’s the catch? the predominant response.)

[10:20] Austin Ellison: -no the space station – SL

[10:21] You: oh *Ducce perks up* free?

[10:21] You: I haven’t seen the space station.

[10:22] Austin Ellison: *this is where I sound like a commercial* Anyone that enters a Levenger retail store, can receive a free, custom, Circa notebook. We build a sample with the kind of pages they want to try. The idea behind it, obviously, is that we want to get people excited about the personalization potential of the system.

[10:24] Austin Ellison: Anyway,…that is what those video prototypes are about. We are developing some method for letting customers know about it that doesn’t seem too “cheeky”. A series of videos shot within the actual stores seemed the right blend of authenticism.

[10:24] You: Oh…I would put on a different mask and appear with a different accent so I can get it all…hehe

[10:24] Austin Ellison: 😉

[10:25] Austin Ellison: To the space station? (I thought it would be a good photo op in the cockpit before launch

[10:25] You: good idea




kisa interview_001

June 3, 2007

kisa interview_001
Originally uploaded by Duc N. Ly.

[2:24] Kisa Naumova: sorry – 2 secs

[2:27] Kisa Naumova: Do you mean what it is that I do art-wise in SL and RL?

[2:30] Ducce Lykin: yes

[2:31] Kisa Naumova: Ah, OK. Well, I suppose it’s an extension of Abstract Expressionism, but in a Digital way

[2:32] Ducce Lykin: aha so you also build the place that i saw?

[2:32] Kisa Naumova: Which one was that?

[2:32] Ducce Lykin: the gallery meeting place

[2:32] Kisa Naumova: In Steiger?

[2:33] Ducce Lykin: yeah i think so where cyrus introduced us

[2:34] Kisa Naumova: Ah, no – that was my build of where I work. The one in Steiger is just a little gallery of mine

[2:34] Kisa Naumova: But yes, I built it. I’m curious about what it means to have “art” in SL

[2:34] Ducce Lykin: i think that is amazing

[2:34] Kisa Naumova: So I’m comparing traditional representation, with conceptual re-presentation

[2:35] Ducce Lykin: yeah i’m interested in projects like this and want other people to hear about it too.

[2:35] Ducce Lykin: do you mine if i put our convo on the blog?

[2:35] Kisa Naumova: Not at all 🙂

[2:36] Ducce Lykin: so how do you think it’s going so far…how have you include your students in the project?

[2:37] Kisa Naumova: It’s a slow start. We’re trying not to go down the “teach a class in SL” route

[2:37] Kisa Naumova: Rather, just provide a space for experimentation – that’s what the other sim is for

[2:37] Kisa Naumova: There are some students on it building an allotment as part of a project they’re working on

[2:39] Ducce Lykin: so there models of rl building where you work on sl?

[2:39] Kisa Naumova: The build at
Leeds, yes

[2:40] Ducce Lykin: how long did it take you to build that?

[2:40] Kisa Naumova: Well, I wrote a script that built it for me

[2:40] Kisa Naumova: So in total, with the planning and scripting, maybe about a week

[2:41] Ducce Lykin: oh that’s fast. i don’t know how to build yet in sl…i do autocad and 3d face sometimes…things i’ve seen on sl amazes me

[2:42] Kisa Naumova: http://www.sleeds.org/show.php?ref=506095_5eab3c

[2:42] Ducce Lykin: how long have you been on sl and how did you come up with this idea to show students to sl art life

[2:43] Kisa Naumova: I’ve been on for nearly two years

[2:43] Kisa Naumova: I bumbled around for a bit, until I saw a friend doing her RL work in SL, and realised I wanted to use this as part of my work

[2:44] Ducce Lykin: what sort of work was your friend doing?

[2:44] Kisa Naumova: Marketing

[2:45] Ducce Lykin: was it hard to convince rl students or faculty members of sl and what you are trying to do?

[2:45] Kisa Naumova: Heheh very

[2:45] Kisa Naumova: They still think I’m daft for it

[2:45] Kisa Naumova: But they’re gradually seeing the results, and that makes them more appreciative

[2:46] Ducce Lykin: hehe i like it when english people say daft!

[2:46] Kisa Naumova: I’m Irish 😉

[2:47] Ducce Lykin: for us who are unfamiliar of script…give us a dummie version of what is scripting

[2:47] Kisa Naumova: OK, um…

[2:48] Kisa Naumova: You can write little ‘actions’ that objects perfom in response to the things around them

[2:48] Kisa Naumova: So you can get them to talk when touched, for example

[2:48] Kisa Naumova: And they can have effects on the things around them

[2:49] Ducce Lykin: good to know that you are irish…this gives me a good excuse to ask u about rl stats if you don’t mind me asking…so are you in your thirties or twenties…

[2:49] Kisa Naumova: Heh. Thirties

[2:50] Ducce Lykin: hm okay ….so you taught yourself to script…hm so thirties and irish …do you look like your sl av or vice-versa…and how do you get your av to look like you?

[2:52] Kisa Naumova: I do look like my AV, yes. But not in obvious ways. It’s taken me two years to tweak my appearance

[2:53] Ducce Lykin: wow that’s serious work. I know another architecture student who is obsess with gaining knowledge of skins…he told me it’s a well guarded secret on sl.

[2:53] Kisa Naumova: It’s not a secret – it’s just complicated work

[2:55] Ducce Lykin: well i think people would be curious about your AV so if you like you can send me a picture of your av and i can put it along this this text

[2:55] Kisa Naumova: OK…

[2:56] Ducce Lykin: is there a good way to save im or do i just have to copy and paste into word

[2:56] Kisa Naumova: http://www.flickr.com/photos/eyefood/240622021/in/set-72157594504008189/

[2:57] Kisa Naumova: Yeah – copy-paste I’m afraid

[2:57] Ducce Lykin: so you just teach yourself about skin and scripting?

[2:57] Kisa Naumova: Actually, wait – I’ll try and find a better one

[2:57] Ducce Lykin: k….

[2:57] Kisa Naumova: Yes. I’ve been programming since I was a kid, so I pick up new languages and stuff

[2:59] Ducce Lykin: So you would also have to teach your students this stuff…that’s double work…why would you want to do that?

[2:59] Kisa Naumova: http://www.flickr.com/photos/eyefood/399564736/

[2:59] Kisa Naumova: I don’t – I let them find out themselves

[3:00] Kisa Naumova: Same way that I approach teaching RL software

[3:00] Kisa Naumova: I think it’s more important to show someone to find out how to learn, than it is to show them which buttons to press

[3:01] Ducce Lykin: i agree and there is their own self motivations

[3:01] Ducce Lykin: it’s not so much about discipline but more about motivation

[3:01] Kisa Naumova: Yes, and a way of thinking

[3:01] Kisa Naumova: “There must be a way to do this”

[3:02] Kisa Naumova: rather than “it’s all too hard”

[3:02] Ducce Lykin: i see…do you mind poping into this place i’m at for a second?

[3:02] Kisa Naumova: Sure. Gimme two secs

[3:03] Kisa Naumova: TP?

[3:03] Ducce Lykin: what do you think about people who will say that it’s good to learn art in rl before sl stuff




[3:08] Ducce Lykin: so any way…what do you think about people’s doubts….and what role does play involve in teaching.

[3:09] Kisa Naumova: Hmm

[3:10] Kisa Naumova: I think play is important. The freedom to fail and experiment is key to learning

[3:10] Kisa Naumova: I think people see this as a game, and put it in a ‘non-serioous’ category

[3:11] Kisa Naumova: I need to go somewhere BTW

[3:11] Ducce Lykin: okay we have enought i think thank you for your time Kisa

[3:11] Kisa Naumova: No probs 🙂

[3:11] Ducce Lykin: i’ll send a url of the interview

[3:11] Kisa Naumova: What a rude man :\

[3:11] Ducce Lykin: maybe next time we can try the swing

[3:11] Ducce Lykin: what happen?

[3:11] Kisa Naumova: Sure 🙂

[3:12] Kisa Naumova: Man who bumped into me

[3:12] Ducce Lykin: oh some times people have prroblme controling av

[3:12] Kisa Naumova: Catch you later 🙂

[3:12] Ducce Lykin: like a noob like me lol

[3:12] Ducce Lykin: bye